In this episode, we speak with Dr. Led Klosky, Professor of Civil Engineering at West Point and the Dean’s Executive Agent for Design and Construction, who has been instrumental in advancing the academy's STEM education. Dr. Klosky discusses his role in developing the Cyber and Engineering Academic Center (CEAC), a modern facility that fosters interdisciplinary collaboration and innovation. We explore how these initiatives prepare cadets for the complexities of modern warfare and the significance of infrastructure investments in enhancing military education. Join us to learn about the transformative impacts of these educational advancements at West Point.
In this episode, we’re joined by Dr. Led Klosky, Professor of Civil Engineering at West Point and the Dean’s Executive Agent for Design and Construction! Dr. Klosky takes us through his journey to West Point, discussing his commitment to equipping today’s Cadets with the necessary skills and leadership for their future roles through learning and inspiring innovation in tomorrow’s warriors.
We explore the groundbreaking Cyber and Engineering Academic Center (CEAC), a project advocated by Dr. Klosky since 2008 to bring West Point’s STEM program to the modern age and designed to enhance the educational environment through collaboration across engineering disciplines in a cutting-edge facility.
In addition to being a Professor, Dr. Klosky is the Dean’s Executive Agent for Design and Construction, helping lead the Academic Building Upgrade Program. Led has been at West Point for over 2 decades and advocated for the new STEM facilities at West Point starting in 2008! That advocation is now being realized in the the CEAC building, with Margin of Excellence elements including the 4th-floor Redoubt and the beautiful Gateway Bridge that will connect the CEAC and Mahan Hall!
Our conversation also delves into the challenges of preparing cadets for modern warfare's ever-changing landscape, underscoring the vital role of innovation and adaptability. We discuss the significance of the Army's investment in advanced infrastructure and the role of private support in pushing the boundaries of what's possible in educational facilities. Discover how collaborative environments and cross-disciplinary interactions within these spaces can lead to significant breakthroughs and the added benefits of efficient study spaces that enrich the cadets' workday experience.
Key Quote:
“Our cadets in their senior year are doing a senior capstone project. Ever cadet. And that capstone project, we're engaging real army problems with real clients and producing real products at the end of that. That means machine shops it means computer facilities for prototyping. It means an engaged faculty that are right there with the cadets day after day. It means a lot of risk on the part of our faculty in that, in the old days, I knew the answer. When I walked into the classroom and I'm like, look, I'm a smart guy. I know a lot of smart stuff. You cadets need to know all this smart stuff. I'm going to put all my smart stuff that I planned up on the board with this piece of chalk. And then I'm going to give you a WPR in a few weeks where you show me you know all this smart stuff. And then we're all happy. And it's all very predictable and it's all good to go. The trouble is that if a cadet graduates today, knowing exactly what I know, I've failed. I need to grow in them, creativity, drive to innovation, a desire to contribute in new ways, and I want them to think things I didn't.
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(00:29) Dr. Klsoky’s journey to West Point
(5:15) Getting involved in the CEAC building
(13:25) Bringing new recruits through modern technology
(25:30) Bringing CEAC’s renditions to life
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Announcer: [00:00:00] Welcome to the WPAOG podcast. Today's featured guest is Dr. Led Klosky, Professor of Civil Engineering at West Point and the Dean's Executive Agent for Design and Construction. With over two decades at the Academy, Dr. Klosky has been pivotal in modernizing STEM education and fostering innovation among cadets.
Today, he shares insights on the groundbreaking Cyber and Engineering Academic Center and discusses the challenges of preparing leaders for tomorrow's battlefield. Please enjoy this episode with Dr. Led Klosky, hosted by Jamie Enos.
Jamie: Dr. Klosky, LED, is it okay if I call you Led today?
Led: Led’s absolutely fine.
Jamie: Awesome. Thanks so much for being on the WPAOG podcast today. We're going to [00:01:00] talk about the CEAC, which is the acronym for the Cyber and Engineering Academic Center that is currently under construction here at West Point. And a quick Google search of West Point CEAC.
CEAC can get our listeners to find out more details, including renderings and progress updates and all of that on the web. But first, before we even do that, tell us about yourself, your experience, your time here at West Point.
Led: I really didn't know anything about the Army or very little before applying for a job as a professor up here at West Point.
My wife encouraged me to apply, and I'm so glad she did. I, of course, knew West Point's academic Reputation, and I knew of the strong reputation of the place, but I didn't really understand what it was. I came up here in 1999 for that interview, and I've been around ever since. So, you know, I guess it's 24 years at this point.
You know, I've gone all the way from assistant professor to full professor here, and now I'm helping run the academic building update program as part of my service to the [00:02:00] nation up here. And it's been a, it's been a great journey and our mission here is so. It's so much the same and at the same time so different from any other university.
I find it really inspiring to come to work every day. You know, it's one of those jobs where you wish there were more hours in the day for you to get the things done that you envision and that you know need, are needed by the institution. So that's a wonderful working environment.
And it's been a, it's been a, it's been a great journey, frankly, and not over yet.
Jamie: Right, right. You're still here. And you have an impressive bio. Our listeners can find that at westpoint. edu by searching for civil and mechanical engineering program. In addition to being a professor of civil engineering, you're also the Dean's executive agent for design and construction.
And so what is your favorite thing about teaching here at the Academy about the cadets?
Led: It has to be the cadets themselves. You know, for a young person in high school, often as a freshman or sophomore, To decide that their [00:03:00] path is going to be service to their nation and not just service to the nation, but service to their nation, which involves personal risk and a willingness to take on that risk and those difficult challenges.
I just have tremendous admiration for our students, but of course they are. You know, American citizens who don't know much, I mean, they don't know much more about West Point, not really, until they arrive here and begin the experience. And yet, so many of them persist and see it to the, see it to the end and go on to serve their nation in some really important ways.
And to be part of that every day that just it really is a privilege. And it also, because of what they may face not always, but what they may face after graduation in service to the nation. I have to give them the knowledge of the leadership the inspiration the commitment to moment by doing things correct moment by moment the small to the large, there are so many things that they need to know before they [00:04:00] Go on to Bolick and then to their first platoon.
It's all about time, right? Every, every second here, you can feel it counts. They say that cadet time is the coin of the realm here. And it's absolutely true. It's absolutely true. And I feel that acutely when I'm preparing for a lesson. When I'm talking with a cadet I'm going to use, I'm going to squeeze every drop at every moment that they're here.
Jamie: It is. And that's the whole thing at the end of the day, right? Those leaders of character that we're developing. So it's an important piece for real, but your academic interests and what you professor of civil engineering and where your expertise lies is in infrastructure and geotechnical engineering.
And I mean, we, could we have a better candidate here to be that executive agent for design and construction. for the CEAC, right? And for our listeners, the CEAC is a modern academic facility. It's going to enable and inspire collaboration across all the engineering, well, the engineering disciplines, specifically of [00:05:00] civil mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, computer science, and systems engineering together all under one roof.
And at 136, 000 square feet, it's a state art facility. Once it's completed going to be able to facilitate Just all this impact within science and technology, engineering, mathematics, scholarship, industry, here at West Point supporting the Army in a larger capacity as well. And then an additional 12, 000 square feet on the fourth floor.
So just an immense building and a giant project that has, you know, It's really changed the landscape as well of West Point over, it's situated over by Mahan Hall across that way. So if anybody coming up the river or coming up direction, West Point will see that in progress right now, but just an immense project.
So how did you get involved in the CEAC in that role?
Led: So it began with me losing my temper to tell you the truth. So in 2000, in 2007, I was [00:06:00] helping some cadets with the construction of a timber bridge, very large, you know, civil engineers do big things. And we were building a large timber bridge as part of a timber bridge comp, national timber bridge competition.
It was the beginnings of the explosion of project based learning as a Principal method of teaching and they were doing it in a loading dock exposed to the February weather at West Point without any overhead clearance. You know, I like to say that if you need 525 square feet, eight feet tall, we got plenty.
Like we got lots of that. But what we didn't have is modern facilities to support engineering innovation. And I watched them doing that. And I basically stomped upstairs to Steve Ressler's office. He was the Department head, Colonel Steve Ressler, now Brigadier General. He was the department head at the time, and I was like, we have got to get a new building.
This is ridiculous. And to his credit, he underpinned that effort, and so did Dean Finnegan. We began pushing forward the idea of a new [00:07:00] engineering building at West Point in 2008. It really began formally. Quite correctly, to get a 200 million federal building up out of the ground takes many years. We have to explain, we have to justify, we have to get down in the details, which we did.
And then by, you know, roughly 2016 or 2017, under the guidance of Lieutenant General Kaslan, the funding pushed through and we began major design efforts. You know, millions and millions of dollars worth of design effort was then undertaken through 2019, and by I want to say that it was the spring of 2020, right as COVID was happening, in fact, that the contract went on the street for bid, and by the end of that fiscal year, we had it awarded and CX rising out of the ground now.
I am really looking forward to having the capabilities that building's going to supply. We really were in Vietnam era facilities prior to that. We've done some amazing things. Our faculty, our students, our cadets, they carry out wonderful work in the [00:08:00] facilities that are provided to us. But having custom, like for instance, the new building will have a drone flight space.
So it'll have a very high area with an observation deck and catch nets that's specifically designed for drone and robotic testing. And so our cadets will be able to go from the, you know, the design documents on their laptop to a prototype. to actually flying, testing, running around with that prototype, all in the same space and all very quickly.
And importantly, they'll also be seen. Right now, the vast majority of our work going on in Mahan and Thayer, which is where a lot of these, which is where the departments moving into CEAC are currently reside. That work is all behind heavy wooden doors. Right, so I got a 90 minute fire prevention, but I also have no visibility, like I have no idea So a plebe or a future cadet, you know, a recruit that's walking through with their parents, they don't see it.
In the new building, there's going to be a lot of glass. There's going to be doors that actually open up [00:09:00] all along a space we're calling Geek Alley. So Geek Alley has shops, labs, teaching spaces, the drone flight space, you know, hydraulics and hydrology experimental space. And then the civil engineering high bay down at the end, that space is going to be just absolutely gorgeous.
So when we walk through that space, you will see the activity. You'll know that we're a cutting edge, technically driven institution that's preparing our students for the battlefield of the future. That's what we're after. Right now, we don't showcase that stuff. And that costs us talent.
I really have to recruit and retain STEM kids twice. I got to recruit them in high school and they got to come here as a cadet. And then as a plebe, they have to choose to join one of the STEM departments. And that's a tough choice for a young person. It's a high hill to climb. So we have to inspire, the spaces have to inspire, they have to communicate.
And I'm confident we're going to do that in the SIEC. It's an absolutely beautiful structure and we'll, Define the entrance to West Point from the south. So as you're [00:10:00] coming from Thayer Road, you know, as you're coming from Thayer Road towards Mahan and the Mahan tunnels on your right, the CX right there on the left, and we have these big arching windows.
It's very respectful of the West Point tradition with the granite and the limestone and the big windows. But make no mistake, it's a modern building. It has a lot of glazing. We're going to bring in a lot of natural light, like the library's north side. So I'm you, I'm really excited about what's coming.
And I, if they could finish it tomorrow, please, that would be wonderful. Right, right, get it. But we do expect it's going to be in some, sometime in summer or fall of 25 at this point.
Jamie: Yeah, construction, tough game, right? Bed of rock, right?
Led: Well, I, you know, I should mention, since you mentioned the rock when we tore all that rock, and that's all granite, right, out of the side of that mountain, it was all blasted out of there, we created 450 parking spaces underneath the building.
So, something that you won't see or necessarily know, just driving by the thing, is it's also meeting one of our key operational needs at West [00:11:00] Point, and that's for additional parking. Right.
Jamie: And talking about all that rock. Right. 300,000 cubic yards removed. 30 30,000 truckloads.
And so that's 18. And we're talking 18 wheelers, big trucks, not dump trucks. Yes. 18 wheelers of trucks. Yeah, that's right. And I think we could do the simple math of a hundred trucks a day for 300 days is how we get that number's. That is a lot of. of movement of material out of there to get that. And I mean, we all saw it and it was just this whole, right?
And it was like, what is going on? But now we have the steel, you know, the steel is up right now. And I know that there are some background going on to kind of get to the next phase. Can you talk about that a little bit of where you are?
Led:. So, you know, all the major site work and utilities are done.
The parking garage is essentially finished. You know, there's some fire prevention stuff and ventilation work going on down there, but the four stories that are above grade, we've got all the steel is in place, all the decks are in [00:12:00] place, they're doing backer block. This is cinder block.
The cinder block walls that will go behind the granite facade and the roof is going on. So we should be, you know, what do they say? God willing and the river don't rise. We should be tight sometime late in 2024, you know, able to start doing finishes inside the building.
It's a lot of work. I mean, there's a lot of people on that site every day,
Jamie: Every day. There is a lot of traffic and we're grateful for everybody that has a hand in that.
Led: Can I give a shout out also to my colleagues, both at the Department of Public Works and the United States Army Corps of Engineers who are managing the job.
A lot of people are really pulling hard on that rope to, to advance this project. The disruption, the daily planning, you know, you're hundreds of thousands of dollars a day in placement. of work. And that takes coordination. It takes partnership and it just takes a lot of patience, frankly. So thanks to all of them for what they're doing.
Jamie: Absolutely. I mean, it's a giant team effort over there. And I think even one more add to that is that [00:13:00] we've seen cadets actually take trip sections for lack of better words, over there with their classes to experience the live build process too. And that impacting the classroom experience as it's going through the progress.
Led: So yeah, and as a civil engineering professor, you know, infrastructure person, like I want to drag the cadets over there every day. I want to just cancel class and go over there every day, see what's going on. And the cadets of course love it. Chance to get their boots dirty and really feel it and hear it.
You know, you can put all the chalk on the board you want, but the smell of diesel fuel and the action, right. That's where the iron meets the road. Right. So.
Jamie: Right. And you talk about it as a method to recruit people. Cadets incoming to West Point and staying here and then also transitioning into these engineering programs that are going to be housed there and the projects that they're doing, both whether they're research based or AIED or honors projects or just research that's supporting the Army as well.
But I think there's another element of just even recruiting talent for instructors that is, this is a draw [00:14:00] for.
Led: Yeah, absolutely. Our faculty, you know, return to us from the army, from some of the most elite institutions in the nation, and they come in here with it. amazing knowledge, having done some really great research projects at some of the, you know, whether it's at Stanford, MIT, you know, Georgia Tech Virginia Tech they're coming in here primed and ready to do real work for the Army.
And that's one of the major changes I've seen over the last 25 years. Our cadets in their senior year are doing a senior capstone project. Every cadet and that capstone project, we're engaging real Army problems. With real clients and producing real products at the end of that means machine shops.
It means computer facilities for prototyping. It means an engaged faculty that are right there with the cadets day after day. It means a lot of risk on the part of our faculty in that in the old days, I knew the answer when I walked into the classroom and I'm like, [00:15:00] Look, I'm a smart guy. I know a lot of smart stuff.
You cadets need to know all this smart stuff. I'm going to put all my smart stuff that I planned up on the board with this piece of chalk, and then I'm going to give you a WPR in a few weeks where you show me you know all this smart stuff. And then we're all happy, and it's all very predictable, and it's all good to go.
The trouble is that, If a cadet graduates today knowing exactly what I know, I've failed. I need to grow in them, creativity, drive to innovation, a desire to contribute in new ways, and I want them to think things I didn't. Because, you know, when we observe the battlefield in Ukraine, for example, There's a lot going on there that is new and that pace of innovation, that pace of change is only accelerating.
I cannot imagine what the, you know, a cadet who's graduating in 28 is going to be a company commander in 2035, 2036. What's the battlefield of 2036 look like? I need [00:16:00] to prepare them not for the exact technology they're going to encounter, to be able to rapidly assess and intake new knowledge. And apply that new knowledge in creative ways.
That, that's what we've got to get to. And that's a big change from, I put smart things on the board and they just repeat it back to me. And it's wonderful. But it's challenging for our faculty. You mentioned our junior faculty, especially they want to be part of that innovation loop and we've got to enable that.
Jamie: Right. And then that faculty is also going back out to the army after they leave this assignment. So they're bringing that with them. So it's got this bigger impact than just even our cadets and our graduates there. It's all the leaders of the army that are kind of. That we're going, coming through West Point that are going to be impacted by these facilities and the technology that we're bringing in to update that.
So the Army has invested a lot of money into this building and it's all moving forward really well, but there are also a margin of excellence dollars being used in impacting the building. This building. [00:17:00] Can you describe that gap and how that influences buildingi n terms of the spaces?
Led: I definitely want to extend my thanks to everyone who supported us through the margin of excellence on the fourth floor and now the coming gateway bridge.
These are very exciting additions to what the federal program was able to provide. So the federal program is able to provide a very robust and highly functional facility that meets the requirements. But when we want to go beyond the requirements. Requirements towards aspirational elements, those margin of excellence elements.
It's that AOG participation that really makes that possible. And the fourth floor is a great example of that. We have really a premier simulation and gathering space up on the top, the readout, the classes have been extremely generous with us. And we're now ready to authorize the Gateway Bridge, which will connect Mahan Hall.
Mahan Hall serve as traditional classroom spaces and administrative spaces. That's where the professor's offices will be. That's where our standard one H classrooms will be. Some of our laboratories will be there, the more [00:18:00] standard laboratories, but it will connect it. to the CEAC via a really premier both circulation and operation space.
So the bridge is 30 feet wide. One side's a hallway and the other side is gathering spaces, collaboration spaces, some enclosed, some open. We're really looking to underwrite those informal collisions of ideas. Especially collaborative collisions. Right now we're separated by department very strongly within these spaces and so really you don't run into people so much from the other disciplines because of the way the spaces are laid out.
And as a design element, one of the things that I've tried to think about most, most tightly is how do we connect people physically to help those ideas connect because that, that the physical connection of, hey, I see you I'm in the same space as you, that leads to conversations and those conversations lead to innovation.
As a, for instance, I recently did a paper for Foreign Affairs Magazine with Rob Persson [00:19:00] down in Soch. So when Soch moved into Mahan Hall as part of that process of, you know, Rob and I working together for Soch's move, because we're setting conditions right now for the Academic Building Update Program, which is a massive program that'll rip through not only CEAC, but we'll also do Building 606, which is a massive program that'll rip through not only CEAC, but we'll also do Building 606.
We'll do the fourth floor of Bartlett, we'll do Washington Hall, we'll do Thayer Hall, we'll do Mahan Hall. Lincoln Hall is currently under construction as is Column. There's just a lot happening. And as part of that the Department of Social Sciences came to Mahan Hall. And so now you've got the systems engineers, the civil and mechanical engineers, and social scientists all in the same space together.
But it's led to productive things already. So I'm hopeful that co location is gonna spark things. You know, you're going to see those sympathetic detonations of ideas that will lead to some really great effects.
Jamie: And creation of the group study spaces for the cadets, I think as well, right?
The cross collaboration. We do have projects that are presented on projects day and those [00:20:00] capstones that you mentioned earlier, and they're, you know, interdisciplinary. I'm going to say that one more time for the editors, but they are interdisciplinary. So getting all of those thinkers together in a room to have that time is also a great opportunity that the building will be able to facilitate.
Led: And I have this dream where cadets don't return to the barracks between classes. Every time a cadet goes from Mahan to Davis Sixth Floor and from Davis Sixth Floor back to Mahan the next hour, you know, that's a half an hour or 20 minutes at least of transition time, and that's just lost. As I mentioned earlier, you know, cadet time is the coin of the realm.
And so if the cadets can find an appropriate study space within the academic space adjacent to where they're going to class. Or where they're talking with professors, doing AI, meeting with their cadet teams. It starts to look more like a coherent workday, like, like you and I would anticipate, instead of this fractured, here, there, everywhere process.
So those [00:21:00] informal landing spaces are serving an important purpose of putting time back in the cadet pocket.
Jamie: I guess my question would be the class support, the support from the classes and individuals and how they're changing the nature of the facility and why is that private support just so critical to this project?
Led: So federal support comes along with a lot of federal rules, all absolutely necessary, all to protect the investment of the U. S. taxpayer. But the investment of the U. S. taxpayer and what we owe to the taxpayer is quite different from something that's coming in through the generosity of a donor. So there's flexibility.
With margin of excellence money that doesn't exist with federal money. The federal money begins with a congressional action and all these, you know, 1391 and they, you know, all these federal forms that can constrain what we're able to do within and should. Right? I mean, I, we should not just be able to ride around like cowboys with federal dollars flying out of a bag, right?
We should be good stewards of every nickel that comes in [00:22:00] that way. And we are good stewards of the margin of excellence money as well, but there is flexibility there and the ability to respond rapidly that just doesn't exist with federal dollars. Both the gateway bridge and the readout were not requirements for this particular building are absolutely going to.
transform what we're able to do within the space by giving us flexibility and by connecting us. Imagine if every time you've got to go to the lab in CEAC, you've got to leave Mahan, go out through the January winter in at West Point and go into the CEAC. It's going to limit the traffic. It's going to limit the connection between between, you know, the traditional academic enterprise and the innovation, creativity and laboratory activities that are going on in CEAC.
That gateway bridge is going to be an absolutely wonderful supplement. And we're hoping to do an overlook bridge. We haven't yet, we haven't yet reached our goals for that. But we're hoping to do an overlook bridge, which will connect CEAC to what we're calling the [00:23:00] Math and Systems Engineering Center.
That's the, that's building 606. Building 606 will go under renovation next year. It's a major refit of that building. It's going to become the home of math and systems engineering, right? It's currently medical stuff and part of the Department of Law is up there, SJA is in there. It's a lot of different sort of services inside that building.
It's a complete gut, completely re envisioning that space. And then, you know, we're hopeful that we'll be able to provide that same kind of dry connection, dry, heated, warm connection in between CEAC and the Departments of Math and Systems Engineering. And then that's, then you get the loop going in there, right?
Now all three buildings are connected. And if you can see the way it's laid out, it's pretty quick. If you're able to get, you're able to get from Mahan over to 606 or into any part of CEAC. And that's going to be just a hub of activity. That'll be a real beehive. One of the things we try to create is excitement and street scene, right?
Led: Street scene, these are young people. They want to be not just [00:24:00] intellectually connected, but socially connected. And so having these spaces where they can see other people who are undertaking the same tasks they are, where they're part of a community, it's really important. And I think that these margin of excellence upgrades are going to really support that piece of it.
Jamie: That's great to hear. And I do, I think agreeing with the, the connection there is really going to foster more AI opportunity and, you know, cadets will take advantage of that and be exposed to it. And then that's a modeling thing too, right? Where they're seeing their instructors, you know, professionally in their offices more often and those kinds of environments.
So when you're all connected like that, it also brings on other things, just even outside that academic lane that I think is important. As you mentioned, that peer to peer connection, right?
Led: The peer to peer connection is the strongest connection. Like I can talk to a cadet all day long and I'll have an impact, but when their peers, Start talking to them about how things should be going down.
They're really listening. So I love the idea that you're going to [00:25:00] have that whole mix going on inside of there. The faculty, staff, and the cadets all develop, all work and focused on developing those cadets.
Jamie: So I know that in this whole process, there are it's a beautiful building when we look at the renditions.
But there's got to be a favorite part that you have, right? I know the windows have been a thing that you've been working on lately. Yeah, we just finished
Led: the mock up. So maybe I'm biased, but, you know, we started sketching these things, like I said, back in 2008, and we wanted to be able to express the military gothic traditions of West Point in a modern way.
And we just finished a thing called a mock up, and that's where the contractor builds a section of the building as a demonstration. And to learn and you know, everybody inspects it and we look at the grout and we look at the waterproofing and we look at the, and we look at the the mortar and hey, is the limestone the right color?
And does everything look tight and good to go. And so now we have about a 30 foot tall, 12 or 14 foot wide section of window that we just completed, [00:26:00] took the scaffolding off a couple of days ago. And yeah, I'll just say it's gorgeous. I love it. It, and when you've got the real building in the background and you're looking at the mock up.
You can see the mock up in the real building behind. And that was a big moment for me. You know, this has been many years in the coming 15 years. And so to see that limestone and that granite that, you know, which says West Point, it really shouts West Point. It was a big moment for me.
So that's my current favorite. Right. But I, you know, what, I'm like a father with eight children, right? I really shouldn't say what's my favorite, right?
Jamie: Right. It's your favorite window.
Led: I'm one of eight kids, so that's why I mentioned it. My father had to be careful not to have favorites.
Jamie:Right. And that's the exit. Interior, we still don't have, you know, again, the steel is there, but the interior is not there yet because we don't have walls and those things like, you know, solidifying the building yet. But as it develops, you're right, you're going, it's just gonna be one thing after another.
I'm sure the list is gonna [00:27:00] be, yep. Pretty long.
Led: When people come in for the 2024 football season. And look up there, they're going to see something, you know, it's changed quite a bit since last year. And then, you know, by football season 2025, it's going to be I'm just really excited about that.
And so it's not that long, not that many months left.
Jamie: Right. It's countdown mode now. We're in countdown
Led: mode. We're in the red zone. Right.
Jamie: Yeah. You're going to be, and that's the exciting piece that you're going to be teaching in this building, right? You're going to have classes over there. I mean, how is that going to impact your class specifically? How do you envision that for you? I mean, we have this, I understand we all, we talk about all the cadets, but I mean, you are going to get to actually teach in that building. So how is that going to, that, how's that going to change, you know, Dr.Klosky's
Led: So I think one of the things is that when cadets have an idea and it's not something I had thought of before, I think we're going to be able to pursue that idea. Because we'll have the facility space flexibility [00:28:00] to do that. So if I went into a capstone project thinking that it's going to be, you know, 10 feet by 15 feet, and, you know, toolboxes X, Y, and Z, and we'll build the thing, and it's going to be all done, and we'll be, you know, then it'll be May, and we'll do projects day, and it's all right.
And the cadets have a totally different idea. Which sometimes they do. We might be able to pivot, which is the soul of innovation. The soul of innovation is the ability to pivot and to pursue creative ideas without losing the bubble on finishing. So, you know, we have a timeline. The cadets are leaving at the end of May, right?
Like Memorial Day, we're done. And so, right now, I have to be very careful with the scope. of what I undertake, because I know that May deadline is looming. If we're able to rapidly retool, provide different, you know, hey, toolbox A is going out and toolbox B is coming in, and we're going from electronic to hydraulic, and that's what's happening, being able to respond rapidly and underwrite creativity and [00:29:00] innovation in that way, I'm really looking forward to that.
And frankly, I think it's going to cause us to rethink a lot of things. We grow very comfortable in what we know, and Mahan Hall is a very comfortable shoe. I don't know if you've ever owned a pair of shoes that you just couldn't say goodbye to, but, you know, they, they do get old, and you do need to, you do need to renew, and so I feel like, you know, it's going to be a new pair of shoes, and so,
Jamie: I'm excited about it personally.
I know that. I just think that it's a beautiful building as well. And I do appreciate as, you know, someone here at West Point and a family that's kind of gone back and forth with assignments here, that it does blend very nicely into the existing landscape as well. So I think that's credit that needs to be said.
And like you said, there's a I don't even know if I, thousands of people that have worked on this project, trying to get it through for years, right, and to see it and have gone through the phases of construction and loss of parking and blasting and, you [00:30:00] know.
Led: The community's been great. The community has been absolutely great.
Those 30, 000 trucks did go through West Point and adjacent communities. And in the end, we were able to execute. And that was just, and I couldn't be more thankful to the U. S. taxpayer, right? They did not have to buy a granite facade on this building. We could have done, we could have done something cheaper.
We could have put the parking elsewhere. We could have gone, we could have gone with half measures. The support of the Department of Defense, the support of Congress and everything. It, I think everybody has pulled together to make something really lasting. I can see that building being there for a hundred plus years.
We just refitted Pershing, in fact. Right. So Pershing, part of the Cadet Barracks update program. . Pershing was refitted and when I think about Pershing from the late 18 hundreds and we just refitted it for another 50 years. So that building is gonna be pushing 200 years. The next time that we go in to do a major renovation.
And so, you know, the [00:31:00] disposable thinking that's not us. West Point projects strength. discipline permanence, and I'm really thankful that this building is going to be part of that long history of, strength, permanence, discipline. It's, it is wonderful.
Jamie: Well, I appreciate your time here today on the WPOG podcast, giving us this inside scoop on the CEAC its project into completion.
It's really exciting. It's an exciting time here at West Point. I'm excited for people, like you said, coming in during football season to start seeing that. And then again, completed next year with everybody moving into it. As we go through this modernization plan here at the academy and you can just watch or hear because sometimes it's internal, like you said, with the barracks, you know, it's not public, but this is a very public facing building and facade.
But as we watch these academic improvements. The academic infrastructure here support the Army's vision to prepare leaders to be ready to deploy and [00:32:00] fight and win decisively and against any adversary at any time and anywhere. So, this building is going to support that vision and the cadets that will be those leaders and the instructors that will roll back out into the Army.
And Recruitment to bring in professors and instructors to, to be the best and instruct them along the way through their academic journey here at West Point. And I appreciate you taking the lead on that as well in this role as the Dean's Executive Agent for Design and Construction. I mean, that's a superhero role.
Yeah,
Led: the dead sea, that's what it is. Yeah.
Jamie: And also, you know, and I think it's important to note that you're doing that while also, you know, carrying the course load with the cadets and your professional expertise as a professor.
Led: I won't stop teaching. I have to, the cadets are the energy, you know, that's the energy that drives me on daily.
And, you know, so I really, I'm taking from them as much as I'm giving. And I also have this, that, you know, there's some young American out there who's a great future leader for [00:33:00] our army who doesn't even know the army, doesn't know West Point, doesn't have a, you know, doesn't have that family tradition that so many, that underwrites so many of our great cadets, who's going to come here and see the CEAC and be like, Whoa, that's not, the army isn't what I thought and decides to join the army story.
That would be, that would, that that, that's a dream because. Maybe that person has some ideas, has some creativity that's going to drive us to the next revolution in modern warfare.
Jamie: Yeah. Well, that'll be interesting to see when SLE, those cadets come in or potential cadets come in or the summer projects day 2026, right.
It should have impact from this 2025 move in, hopefully. So it'll be a great time in the next couple of years, see what happens with the impact of the building. So thanks, Led. Thanks for being on today.
Led: You bet. And Jamie, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me.
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